Robert Spencer: Sweden's FM Billström is kowtowing to Muslim countries
Robert Spencer, author and director of Jihad Watch, slams Swedish Foreign Minister Tobias Billström after Billström's invitation to a global Muslim organisation to deal with "islamophobia".
Through books, seminars and the watchdog website Jihad Watch, American Robert Spencer has long been one of the strongest voices in opposition to Islamism, more specifically, Islamism and its inroads into the Western World.
I reached out to him for an interview to get his take on some current topics related to Sweden and current examples of islamization. As well as his thoughts on how to deal with it.
In a lengthy interview, Spencer covers the Muslim riots in France which Robert Spencer calls “inevitable”, the Swedish Foreign Minister Tobias Billström’s recent outreach to the international Muslim community and the islamization of an American city. Also, Robert Spencer discusses the culpability of media.
Robert Spencer labels the recent wild riots that has been plaguing France “Muslim riots”. He has also been very clear about the fact that the riots are related to the mass migration from Muslim countries. Which is not something that typically has been a focal point in much of the media coverage.
– The French government has expressly denied that it had to do with mass Muslim migration but they did so in a very disingenuous manner, says Robert Spencer and continues:
– [The minister of interior] Gerald Darmamain said that most of the rioters were French citizens which doesn't actually mean that they're not the products of Muslim migration.
Islam was central in French riots
Robert Spencer points out that today, many of the citizens in France are first, second and even sometimes third generation Muslim migrants.
– The question is not whether or not they are French citizens but what their overall goal for the French state is. It's very clear from the fact that the rioters who were recorded, and these videos are still available, as saying “Allahu Akbar” (“God is great” in Arabic), as targeting churches but never mosques, as making it very clear that they were operating from an Islamic perspective.
There is no doubt in Robert Spencer’s mind that Islam is a driving force and central to the rioters. He points to several key facts.
In a video, one of the rioters, Robert Spencer recalls, says “you have brutalized us, you colonialized our countries and now it's our turn to colonialize France”.
– Another [man says] that Allah has given us permission to kill you in the Quran because you have allegedly done these injustices to us.
– Very clearly then [the French government] understand the riots to be Muslim riots and meanwhile the French government, the French media, as well as the Swedish government and [Swedish] media all have consistently denied and downplayed the reality of jihad violence and the crime rate increase that came with the influx of the Muslim migrants.
Note: The general crime rate in Sweden has gone down, but fatal shootings and bombings, related to gangs has risen. So much that Sweden was branded Europe’s “Gun-Murder Capital” by Wall Street Journal. The last year Stockholm has been the center of ongoing wars between gangs, many members with roots in Muslim countries.
Media downplaying
Robert Spencer’s explanation to why governments and media would downplay the cause of violence and crime rate:
– They have a vested interest because they are the ones responsible for this mass migration, says Spencer. In his opinion, the media and the government are trying to deceive people into thinking there is no connection.
Why is it important to correctly, in your terms, label these riots as Muslim riots [as well as crimes or problems in] Sweden as Muslim related?
– Well it's a very simple thing. If I am suffering from an ailment I need to have it diagnosed properly in order to receive the proper medication. If the problem here is mass Muslim migration then reconsidering the policies of mass Muslim migration would be the first step toward bringing restoring peace and harmony in both nations (France and Sweden) and if there is an element of Islamic supremacism, or the idea that Sharia must ultimately be installed as the law of the land in both Sweden and France. Then the governments need to acknowledge that in order to try to inculcate among young Muslims in both countries that they're required to be loyal to the secular state and to make sure that the mosques are teaching that loyalty and so on.
– But if everyone is ignoring and denying that there is such an element to the unrest then those steps will never be taken.
A belief that Islam is superior and must dominate
Are you surprised the riots happened in France?
– Not remotely surprised. They were inevitable because there was always an element among the migrants that believed that Islam is superior and must dominate and not be dominated as Hassan al Banna the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood stated, says Robert Spencer.
– This means that they don't believe the French government is legitimate because it is not constituted according to Islamic law.
The problem with legitimacy among Muslims also exists in Sweden according to Robert Spencer.
– Because it's not based on Sharia and so they will always take any opportunity that they can to destabilize and weaken the governments in question with the view toward ultimately replacing it with an Islamic state.
Robert Spencer makes a point that he’s not talking about all Muslims.
– But it is a significant enough number that the unrest that was in France was inevitable and anybody could have seen it [coming] if they were honest about what was happening in France which of course few people are.
The Muslim Brotherhood is typically not known for promoting violence but rather using [democratic institutions] to promote their ideas and are even accused of trying to introduce Sharia laws and and sort of “take over governments” through democratic processes.
– Yes that's right. Remember that the Muslim Brotherhood manifesto that was discovered in the offices of the Holy Land foundation and Islamic charity in the United States that was ultimately shut down for funding Hamas. It stated that the brothers goal in the West was eliminating and destroying Western civilization from within and sabotaging its miserable house so that it falls, says Robert Spencer.
Koran riots in Sweden
According to Robert Spencer, one of the strategies of the Muslim Brotherhood is to “compel non-Muslims” to work against their own systems.
– We see this in Sweden, France and the United States today.
How do you connect that to the violence and the riots that occurred in in France and occurred in Sweden last year during the [Koran riots]?
– The riots are designed to bring concessions from the state. And so in the particular case of the Koran burning riots the idea is to intimidate the Swedish state into adopting what are Sharia blasphemy laws that is limiting the freedom of expression such that the burning of the Koran is forbidden and the Koran is held as a sacrosanct book even among non-Muslims.
– Such that while one can burn a Bible one can burn whatever other book one wishes to burn for whatever reason you can't burn a Koran and of course this is in accord with the Islamic laws that forbid blasphemy of Islam the Koran.
Swedish state media (Sveriges Television, Sveriges Radio) used the term Easter riots for the Koran riots since they occurred during the Easter. Robert Spencer is not surprised but very critical.
– That's fully in accord with what I said before that the Swedish government and media like the governments and media all over the West are dedicated to fooling the public as to the nature and magnitude of Islamic Jihad violence and rendering them complacent and ignorant in the face what is the rising threat that they themselves have brought on the West.
– It's not at all surprising that they would call these riots Easter riots so as to conceal the ideological roots of the problem.
The real conspiracy theorists
What do you say to those that accuse you of touting a conspiracy theory regarding media and the government?
– [With] terms such as Easter riots well the reality is very clear. When you have people rioting because they are burning the Koran and somebody calls them Easter riots instead of Koran burning riots then the burden of proof is on them to show what Easter has to do with this, says Robert Spencer.
He continues:
– And then they'll say “well it was the time that it happened”. All right, very well, but did were they rioting because it was Easter? Were they rioting because they were angry Christians who were upset at Easter for some reason, Robert Spencer asks rhetorically.
– Obviously the answer to those questions is no, Spencer says.
– The reality of why they were rioting was because people were burning the Koran, so who's the conspiracy theorist? The one who calls them Koran burning riots or the one who calls them Easter riots? The one who calls them Koran burning riots is simply reporting the facts. The one who calls them Easter riots is trying to obfuscate those facts.
The lesson learned from Jyllands-Posten
Robert Spencer are convinced riots such as those in France and in Sweden are going to become more frequent and grow bigger and more violent.
– It's going to get much worse. Because the Muslim Brotherhood, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), the government of Pakistan and their allies have all witnessed the cowardice of the West repeatedly starting with the cartoons of Muhammad in Jyllands-Posten in Denmark in 2005. No paper would reprint or very few papers would reprint those cartoons. everyone was happy to kowtow and submit to Sharia blasphemy laws and refrain from reprinting those cartoons nobody saw the importance of standing up for the freedom of expression.
The episode with Jyllands-Posten taught the OIC and the Muslim Brotherhood organisations in the West an important lesson says Robert Spencer.
– The western authorities can be intimidated into submission and so they're going to continue that intimidation until they are shown that it will no longer work.
Speaking of OIC, the Swedish Foreign Minister Tobias Billström has made an invitation to OIC (first reported by Erik Nilsson of Svenska Dagbladet) for a meeting on fighting “Islamophobia”. The invitation comes after a period of unrest and wild protests in the Muslim world after the Koran was burned in Sweden and also while Sweden is struggling to get approval from Turkey as a NATO member. What do you think of this approach from the foreign minister? Is it a sensible approach or is it kowtowing?
– It's cowardly and it's ultimately self defeating because here again Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the president of Turkey, has demanded that Sweden outlaws the burning of the Koran in order to get into NATO.
Robert Spencer says Tobias Billström and the Swedish government is using a flawed reasoning.
– The downside is that they've sacrificed the freedom of expression in order to gain these things and demonstrated yet again to the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) as well as to everyone that they can be intimidated into obedience.
The intimidation will only grow according to Robert Spencer.
– There will be more demands, more threats, more unrest instead of less. Because they will have more things that they want the Swedish government to give until finally Sweden has surrendered utterly and become a Sharia state.
Detrimental to freedom of speech
Robert Spencer argues that inviting to a conference on “Islamophobia” is not going to further the cause of Nato membership.
– It's only just setting a precedent that is extremely dangerous for all the governments of the West especially at this time when the governments of the West in general are showing a tendency toward authoritarianism and an intolerance of dissent and a determination to silence dissidents and destroy the freedom of speech.
– When Sweden so readily surrenders on the issue of the freedom of speech in order to get into NATO it sends a bad signal and sets a bad precedent for the rest of the alliance which also wants to jettison the freedom of speech and will do so before tomorrow.
Advicing Tobias Billström
So how would Robert Spencer advice that the Swedish Foreign Minister Tobias Billström communicates to international Muslim governments and organisations? Spencer suggest speaking plainly and to not compromise on the Western principles of democracy.
– They must understand that in a pluralistic society as well as in the world that we live in today, we are going to have radical disagreements about basic principles and that in order to live in peace and harmony we have to put up with being offended rather than demand the supremacy of one ideological system and system of belief over all the others by exempting it from that kind of offense.
– Consequently there will be no restriction on the freedom of expression in Sweden and Swedish people will be held to one system of laws the Swedish system of laws whether they are Muslim or Christian or anything else and so the Muslims in Sweden will be expected to respect the freedom of expression and expected to respect Swedish laws in all other particulars.
The Islamization of Hamtramck
Various media, politicians and experts in Sweden have made the claim that Islamization is a “myth”.
Recently, the city of Hamtramck in Michigan, USA has made the news. And not for good reasons. The city has an all male, all Muslim City Council. Robert Spencer has reported extensively on the city, and how Sharia law is being implemented. Earlier this year, Spencer reported that animal sacrifice in private homes were approved, according to Muslim practices. More recently however, what has made the news, is the City Council forbidding the gay rainbow flag on city property.
– One of the most notable results of this has been the breakdown of the alliance between the left and the Islamic groups which has been up to now very strong in Europe and the United States and continues to be very strong in various ways but in Hamtramck the all Muslim City Council passed a resolution forbidding the flying of the gay rainbow flag on city property, says Robert Spencer and continues:
Sense of betrayal
– Now this is extraordinary and the former mayor of Hamtramck, a non-muslim woman, said that she felt betrayed, that after the left in Hamtramck had been so welcoming to the Muslims the Muslims were not reciprocating.
Robert Spencer says that it was the natural outcome in Hamtramck.
– This is the nature of Islam. Throughout history [Muslims] will make alliances with non-Muslims for their own convenience and then break those alliances when they are no longer useful. But this involves no concessions on their part to the sensibilities of the non-Muslims in question this is a matter of Islamic doctrine as well as the unanimous record of Islamic history.
The political left shows no sign of learning about Islamic doctrine or history, according to Robert Spencer. In Sweden, a subsidary to the Socialdemocratic party, struck a deal with major Muslim organisations in the late 1990’s. And several parties in Sweden has been caught with islamists within their ranks. But it’s not only politicians to the left who are flirting with islamism.
One Republican politican and commentator, Tudor Dixon, has flaunted the idea of cooperating with the Muslim community over the opposition to the LGBTQ issues.
– They think now we can align with these Muslim groups and we'll have a tremendous coalition against secularism, says Robert Spencer.
He acknowledges that there might be som short sighted common interests for conservatives and the Muslim group. Robert Spencer says it’s a losing proposition in the end.
– But the conservatives that I have seen touting this don't seem to be aware of the nature of Islam anymore than the left is. So they don't understand the supremacist assumptions of the Koran and sunna and of Islamic teaching in general that the Muslims are superior to the non-Muslims.
How would you suggest an intellectual approach to defeating Islamism?
– There needs to be in the first place honest acknowledgement of what Islamism is and of its extent within the Islamic community and then a careful distinction made between the belief system of Islam which is supremacist authoritarian violent expansionist and aggressive hateful toward outsiders and so on and individual Muslims who may be none of those things. [Everybody is innocent until proven guilty].
– But at the same time the western states if they wish to survive as free societies need to understand that they've brought in large numbers of people who don't believe in free societies as they do.
– [The migrants] needs to be challenged to accept the freedom of the societies and not work to establish the supremacy of Islam and the installation of Sharia. But this is going to be very difficult at this point as their numbers increase.